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Can one of the many RealTouch staffers or CSR's that visit the forum daily please answer the following questions?

Clarification would be much appreciated for everyone's health and safety.

Question #1 - If you don't know whether or not the devices people are shipping back are clean and there are no warning labels (handle with care, potential health hazaard, etc.) on the shipping materials, how are postal workers and other people's mail protected from potential exposure from boxes that may be damaged or pierced during shipping?

Question #2 - You say the returned devices are destroyed after inspection. I would guess there are likely health department regulations that define the disposal of products that could contain blood-born pathogens. Can you provide information on how and where the devices are destroyed?

Question #3 - Can you please describe the type of manufacturing and packaging environment you use for this product as well as what health and safety measures are instituted during the manufacturing process and the product return process.

Question #4 - Can you please explain what kind of independent testing was done prior to releasing te product to insure the safety of the product design, its materials, and its production and what indpedent companies or government agancies conduted these tests.

Question #5 - Can you explain what kind of fail-safes have been designed into the product to prevent tissue damage should the USB controls malfunction or in case of power outtages/surges, etc.

Thanks so much.

You probably will not get an answer as it sounds like you are trying to trap them or "get" them on something. You have some insider information you would like to share with all of us?

Also most of the questions can be answered by looking up local and federal laws.

I've got to agree with RT_USER_ZERO, all of your posts seem very probative and rather negative towards RealTouch. I doubt they're going to tell you anything specific, since you're motives seem suspicious.

That said, in regards to question #1 and #2, I would think the volumes that "could" be in the returned units are most likely below the thresholds that are required to flag the returned packages and I would also assume that they would be disposing of the returned and post-inspected units either by autoclaving or incinerating (I'm guessing incinerating). As far as the location or company they contract with, I highly doubt they'd spread that around for liability reasons. The same goes for question #3. I'm sure their competitors would love to read the answer to #4. And finally, judging by #5, I doubt you own one of these units. Even if you were to try to "use" the product during the warm up stage, when it's moving at what appears to be top speed, I doubt it would do serious damage to your junk. If there were a lightning strike, I'd be more worried about ungrounded cables/lube/bare-flesh than a computer malfunction.

You are both right on several points.

I am fairly certain no one from RealTouch or AEBN will answer any of these questions. But that doesn't make the questions any less valid. The fact that they won't answer them honestly here, or through customer service (I've tried) is the troubling matter. And there are third parties observing their answers and lack thereof with great interest.

You are also right when you say that there are some answers to found to some of these by look at local and state laws. So, if the company were correctly observing those regulations why wouldn't they say so? It seems they speak up to insure their customers they are responsible manufacturers. Their silence on these matters speaks volumes.

Arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win, you're retarded.

But, that said...

You sure do make a lot of unfounded and serious allegations. Of course no one will answer potentially dicey questions online, no corporation will. That's how lawyers make a living twisting people's words. Try asking Apple about their manufacturing plants in China, or hell..ask them about anything! You won't get a response because it's in their best interest not to.

As far as following local and state laws, why would a company "defend" themselves against someone who is obviously trying to trick/trap them somehow on a public internet forum? Their silence does speak volumes, about their wisdom in recognizing a trap and avoiding it.

When it comes to your insider information, wow..that's a lot of allegations you're throwing around. Something tells me that if you had "proof", you wouldn't be trying to trap them on this forum. Given the details in your allegations and the overall tone, I would wager to guess that you may have been involved with the company at some point and then forced out, leading to these vindictive posts. Sour grapes aren't an excuse for libel, which is what your latest post seems to be.

I would imagine that sales are probably down because..oh..I don't know, ALL SALES ARE DOWN! Despite the fact the DOW hit 11k, it doesn't mean main street isn't still suffering. No matter how well you market a device like this, it's not a necessity and many folks will not pay/buy it if they don't have the money for it.

*IF* this company is being investigated by "numerous government and law enforcement agencies", the moment one of those agencies found out anything concrete AND potentially hazardous, like your allegations of re-selling used devices, they would be forced to intervene to prevent future victims or they would be just as complicit and since that hasn't happened, I don't think your allegations have any weight. Since you keep prefacing your comments with "could", coupled with the fact that you keep fishing for information, leads me to believe you're a disgruntled ex-employee who has tried to make a stink to the authorities that turned right around and asked you "ok, those are some serious stories, but do you have any proof?" And you don't, because you're making things up, hence your trolling here.

What I'm seeing here is that kid at the beach who couldn't figure out how to make a good sand castle, so he spends his days kicking down other kid's castles.

If you have proof of wrongdoing by the company and potential health issues, bring them to the authorities who will be obligated to stop the company from practicing to prevent other victims. Otherwise, stop trying to deface a company that, in my opinion, has an awesome product. I REALLY enjoy using this product, so when I see posts like yours trying to cast a negative light on it, that just pisses me off. Like you said about "wasting money" on a device like this, this product is both a device and a content provider and it isn't cheap, so when internet blow-hards like yourself start trying to shut down the provider over sour grapes/jealousy/religious fanaticism/old fashioned sensationalism/whatever...someone needs to address it and since I have NOTHING to do with Real Touch/AEBN other than using the product, it might as well be me.

Hmm.

Thanks for the reply. The more you respond, the higher these thread will remain on this forum and the more people will read it.

You joined the site two days ago and by looking at your posts its obvious that you only joined to respond to my postings. So, I seriously doubt you have no connection to the company as you claim. All of the industry and product forums are trolled by employees in disguise. That's nothing new nor is it surprising.

But thanks for your help in keeping this conversation fresh. If it had no merit, it could have just faded into oblivion, but your continued response gives it more legs than it would have on its own. You're awesome!

If you will read my posts carefully, you'll see I've not specifically accused the company of anything. I've asked questions and I've posited theories. Seeing as how this is a forum where people share opinions, I'm not doing anything wrong. If people only want to hear good and biased opinions on a subject, it might as well be advertising.

Also, you are correct in my personal investment in my posts. But it has nothing to do with sour grapes. In fact, knowing that employees troll here, these notes are intended specifically for them. There just might be a few who don't know exactly what they've gotten themselves involved in and they deserve to know the truth.

FYI... government agencies, particularly law enforcement agencies, can work for months or years gathering evidence before they take any action. The reason being, they want to make sure the charges stick by having concrete evidence. They could have a person(s) or business(es) under surveillance for a very long time. In addition, they've been known to place individuals undercover as employees to gather information, particularly when the businesses under investigation do millions of dollars of revenue per week. That's considered to be a big fish. And even if the business gets tipped off, the actions they take to cover up things after that point are just used as additional evidence against them.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Real Touch. I am glad you think its worth the money. I am sure that if all is on the up-and-up with this business, that they will come out squeaky clean and you'll enjoy your device for years to come, and REALLY hope you don't get rust up the crotch.

If you respond, I will continue to respond back. But if you let this post go by without a response, it will just fade into the dust and you won't have to worry about the things I've shared getting any more air time than they already have. It's up to you.

Thanks again for your help in getting the word out!

(04-11-2010 02:15 AM)RealTouchUser Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win, you're retarded.

But, that said...

You sure do make a lot of unfounded and serious allegations. Of course no one will answer potentially dicey questions online, no corporation will. That's how lawyers make a living twisting people's words. Try asking Apple about their manufacturing plants in China, or hell..ask them about anything! You won't get a response because it's in their best interest not to.

As far as following local and state laws, why would a company "defend" themselves against someone who is obviously trying to trick/trap them somehow on a public internet forum? Their silence does speak volumes, about their wisdom in recognizing a trap and avoiding it.

When it comes to your insider information, wow..that's a lot of allegations you're throwing around. Something tells me that if you had "proof", you wouldn't be trying to trap them on this forum. Given the details in your allegations and the overall tone, I would wager to guess that you may have been involved with the company at some point and then forced out, leading to these vindictive posts. Sour grapes aren't an excuse for libel, which is what your latest post seems to be.

I would imagine that sales are probably down because..oh..I don't know, ALL SALES ARE DOWN! Despite the fact the DOW hit 11k, it doesn't mean main street isn't still suffering. No matter how well you market a device like this, it's not a necessity and many folks will not pay/buy it if they don't have the money for it.

*IF* this company is being investigated by "numerous government and law enforcement agencies", the moment one of those agencies found out anything concrete AND potentially hazardous, like your allegations of re-selling used devices, they would be forced to intervene to prevent future victims or they would be just as complicit and since that hasn't happened, I don't think your allegations have any weight. Since you keep prefacing your comments with "could", coupled with the fact that you keep fishing for information, leads me to believe you're a disgruntled ex-employee who has tried to make a stink to the authorities that turned right around and asked you "ok, those are some serious stories, but do you have any proof?" And you don't, because you're making things up, hence your trolling here.

What I'm seeing here is that kid at the beach who couldn't figure out how to make a good sand castle, so he spends his days kicking down other kid's castles.

If you have proof of wrongdoing by the company and potential health issues, bring them to the authorities who will be obligated to stop the company from practicing to prevent other victims. Otherwise, stop trying to deface a company that, in my opinion, has an awesome product. I REALLY enjoy using this product, so when I see posts like yours trying to cast a negative light on it, that just pisses me off. Like you said about "wasting money" on a device like this, this product is both a device and a content provider and it isn't cheap, so when internet blow-hards like yourself start trying to shut down the provider over sour grapes/jealousy/religious fanaticism/old fashioned sensationalism/whatever...someone needs to address it and since I have NOTHING to do with Real Touch/AEBN other than using the product, it might as well be me.

Nice move, Speakerz, taunting me and then labeling any response on my end as your one and only reason to continue is a real stand-up move.

I'll play your game though and let this thread die, after I reiterate that I have NOTHING to do with real touch or any of their companies, and affirm that yes, I did join this non-official forum just because your posts got on my nerves (I've had a real touch device since Feb). The overly-litigious, self-righteous tone of your posts just managed to push my buttons to the point where I went ahead and responded. Your innuendo that the company is reselling used devices is beyond disturbing and, as I said before, if you actually do have proof, please notify the proper authorities. Those agencies that take time to build a case would never allow their target to continue to engage in activities that pose a direct threat to the same citizens they've sworn to protect. All I've read from your posts so far seems to be unfounded, but if you do know of something in particular you'd like to share, I'm sure everyone would love to know. We're all ears, or eyes, as the case may be.

So, the ball is back in your court Speakerz. If you know of anything specifically that real touch or their companies have done, please let us know. If you don't want to share whatever information you may have for whatever reasons you may have, that's fine too. We can let this thread fade away and you won't hear anything else from me on the subject. But, if you continue to try to defame a company that is putting out a product I happen to like without any substance to your allegations, I'll continue to let you know.

Loyal RealTouchUser:

There was no taunt intended. I just happen to be a fan of the truth. I also believe that companies that deal with consumers have a responsibility to be truthful. Go figure.

Ironic that you should mention self-righteousness. That's actually what made me speak up. I find it disgusting for a company to go around claiming the reason they developed a product is to prevent 'illegal' piracy of content when their entire business model is built on no-so-cleverly veiled questionable activity.

Regarding the refurbishing of devices... I actually never claimed they were and have no proof of such. In fact, I don't think it would make much sense for them to do so. My point was that because they have a return policy for a device that collects bodily fluids, they open themselves up to scrutiny as to what they are doing with those devices. They have a responsibility to dispose of those items correctly and to be able to prove such to consumers.

My concern with companies that evade and lie is that if they will do it with small matters, they will do it with large matters. How I see it is as the tip of an iceberg of organized lies, deception, evasion, hypocracy and potential suspicious activity.

I don't believe that any company should be able to build a fortune on those traits. Yes, if I see a sand castle being built with lies and other people's money, I will most definitely try to kick it down. The proof is in the hands that can do and are doing something about it. But I will also try to warn people who could get hurt in the cross-fire.

I don't believe in blissful ignorance. But, alas, I will leave you to yours. The truth will out.

(04-11-2010 12:46 PM)RealTouchUser Wrote: [ -> ]Nice move, Speakerz, taunting me and then labeling any response on my end as your one and only reason to continue is a real stand-up move.

I'll play your game though and let this thread die, after I reiterate that I have NOTHING to do with real touch or any of their companies, and affirm that yes, I did join this non-official forum just because your posts got on my nerves (I've had a real touch device since Feb). The overly-litigious, self-righteous tone of your posts just managed to push my buttons to the point where I went ahead and responded. Your innuendo that the company is reselling used devices is beyond disturbing and, as I said before, if you actually do have proof, please notify the proper authorities. Those agencies that take time to build a case would never allow their target to continue to engage in activities that pose a direct threat to the same citizens they've sworn to protect. All I've read from your posts so far seems to be unfounded, but if you do know of something in particular you'd like to share, I'm sure everyone would love to know. We're all ears, or eyes, as the case may be.

So, the ball is back in your court Speakerz. If you know of anything specifically that real touch or their companies have done, please let us know. If you don't want to share whatever information you may have for whatever reasons you may have, that's fine too. We can let this thread fade away and you won't hear anything else from me on the subject. But, if you continue to try to defame a company that is putting out a product I happen to like without any substance to your allegations, I'll continue to let you know.

Wow...that's rather Glenn Beck-ian of you to 1) label me as "loyal", 2) refer to yourself as a "fan of the truth", 3) conjure up an image of something universally abhorred in attempt to link it to your topic and 4) allude to an "iceberg of organized lies, deception, evasion, hypocrisy and potential illegal activity"...all in a single post! Is this sweeps week?

Tell ya what, since you seem like a 'glass half empty' kinda guy, I'll make a deal with ya. If you turn out to be right and the health board/FBI/homeland security/Paul Blart shuts them down and everything goes to hell in a hand basket, you can say "I told ya so" and I'll say you were right. In the meantime, I still think that both 1) harassing/defaming a company, regardless of their product, without any proof or 2) harassing/defaming a company, regardless of their product, with proof but not sharing with other's what that proof is, are wrong.

RealTouchUser:

Glenn Beck? How'd you know I was a fan of his? ;-)

Sorry for going so far out on a limb as to compare an image of an item that could contain blood-born pathogens with another item that could contain ....drum role, please...blood-born pathogens. Imagine my nerve!

I do have to give it you though, my friend. It's wrong of me not to give any specifics. I figured that if people were interested they could do their own digging and make their own inferences based on what they find. But if you want me to get the ball rolling, I will be more than happy to oblige.
Let's just deal with the very tip of the iceberg I described. I think that should raise enough questions to send people on their own quest...

Let's start by looking at the RealTouch.com splash page. Notice the words at the bottom right that say: Copyright 2009 RealTouch™ an AEBN ® Company.

Gonna break that down...

1. RealTouch is not a registered company in any of the 50 states.
2. AEBN is a trademark owned by WMM Holdings LLC, not a company in and of itself. There is also no privilege license on file in Charlotte for an AEBN. Thus even if RealTouch were a company, it could not be an AEBN company as they imply. It would technically be a WMM Holdings LLC company.

BUT INSTEAD…

If you enter the site and click on the Privacy Policy link you will see that they state that the website is owned and operated by AEBN. Again, there is no such legal entity as AEBN. Also notice that on the terms of service, there is no company name or responsible party listed at all. That being the case, there is technically no real legal entity that can be held responsible for the agreements presented on the site.

ALSO…

The non-existent legal entity of AEBN is listed as the owner and operator of the RealTouch.com website, BUT on the contact page you won’t find the AEBN name. Instead along with the 500 Archdale Dr. address, you find ‘RealTouch’, another apparently non-existent legal entity. This is also the name and address used to ship all returned devices to and from the company.

According to the NC Sec of State website, AEBN LLC has never existed as a NC corporation. It was a SC corp providing ‘Entertainment Services’ as its business type until 2006 when it changed its name to Data Conversions and became an NC LLC and listed its business type as internet services in 2006.

But magically, in that same year (2006) the owner established WMM Holdings LLC. But nowhere on the RealTouch website will you find the name WMM Holdings LLC. Also, if you check the listings on the NC Sec of State site, you will find no listing for WMM Holdings and no Application for Certificate of Authority which would allow WMM Holdings to legally conduct business operations in NC.

Yet, you will find a Charlotte NC location, the same as listed for AEBN and RealTouch, listed as the WMM Holdings Corporate headquarters on their website, and on the AEBN.net SSL certificate.

Where you will find a corporation listing for WMM Holdings, LLC is in Nevada, where the company has no actual operations. Nevada Incorporations are well known to entered into for the common purposes of tax evasion and its high level of company protection from transparency, liability and lawsuits.
Where you will also find WMM Holdings, LLC listed is on many of the domain listings the ‘AEBN’ operates and two separate 'who's paying me' sites that show that payments to AEBN.net affiliates are made under the WMM Holdings LLC name.

Remember that WMM Holdings LL apparently has no legal right to operate a business in NC, yet it showed up as their address in numerous locations. Now you DO have Data Conversions (formerly AEBN) listed as an NC corp. But now look at the websites for these two companies. Dataconversionbiz and wmmholdings.com. IDENTICAL with the exception of the name and contact info. Apparently we're supposed to believe that two totally unrelated companies both provide identical VOD services to third party clients and their videos and have identical websites. Right.

Not surprisingly, there are no samples of this proprietary software solution, nor any list of non-adult clients as you would find with other companies that provide such legitimate services. There is also no mention of adult videos, AEBN, Realtouch or any of the company’s other brands anywhere on either website. Yet if you can check US trademark and web domain listings for WMM Holdings you will find AEBN, Porntube, MovieMonster, etc.

If you look at a current job posting on the Charlotte Craigslist you will see that in this instance they go by yet ANOTHER name, Data Tech Systems. My guess is this is the company they use to pay employees so they can attempt to get around having to deal with the legal implications of officially having employees working for a porn company, even though that's exactly ALL they are doing. The NC Sec of State does have a corporation listing under that name. The posting also describes that if hired the person would be working Data Tech Systems and their partner, AEBN (the non-existent company), the leader in adult VOD.

So, here we have a company that as evidenced so far, is operating under five different names (RealTouch, AEBN, Data Tech Systems, Data Conversions, &WMM Holdings), only some of which are legal entities and only some of which are cleared to operate in the state of NC. If you put in a little extra work, you will also find other NC and NV state listings and find about ten other related corporations.

So, basically what you have as far as Real Touch goes is a non-existent company that could very easily arrange it so that no one associated with the project is liable for any damages or lawsuits should anything go wrong with this product. You also have an organization that has apparently gone to great lengths to hide something(s) and protect themselves from something(s). You have to ask yourself what those things might be OR if you’re not in denial you will know exactly what those something(s) are.

Wanna bet, many of these sites and examples will be changed or ammended within days of this posting.

At the very least all of this is extremely suspicious and deceptive. I won’t even get in to the possible legal and IRS implications. And this is just the tip of a bunch of other junk. If the layperson is able to dig all of this up just by doing some internet research, imagine what else there might be still hidden. You have to ask yourself why they would go to all the trouble if everything was kosher. This is the kind of information that makes certain government agencies take notice. And we haven’t even gotten into all of the RT device related drama yet.

Oh… and just for the fun of it, if you want to see a bit of upstanding business history , do a little NC state listing, NC BBB and google digging for a company called Netwinner. See if you recognize any name. I think you’ll find it interesting.

Happy Hunting!

(04-11-2010 03:13 PM)RealTouchUser Wrote: [ -> ]Wow...that's rather Glenn Beck-ian of you to 1) label me as "loyal", 2) refer to yourself as a "fan of the truth", 3) conjure up an image of something universally abhorred in attempt to link it to your topic and 4) allude to an "iceberg of organized lies, deception, evasion, hypocrisy and potential illegal activity"...all in a single post! Is this sweeps week?

Tell ya what, since you seem like a 'glass half empty' kinda guy, I'll make a deal with ya. If you turn out to be right and the health board/FBI/homeland security/Paul Blart shuts them down and everything goes to hell in a hand basket, you can say "I told ya so" and I'll say you were right. In the meantime, I still think that both 1) harassing/defaming a company, regardless of their product, without any proof or 2) harassing/defaming a company, regardless of their product, with proof but not sharing with other's what that proof is, are wrong.