(04-02-2010 10:19 PM)speakerz Wrote: [ -> ]There nothing ambiguous about the description in the NC statute. Obscene materials are described in great detail.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...190.1.html
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...190.5.html
AND... according to this the preparation and distribution of every single individual movie would be a separate illegal act. Think about how many movies a company has like this on their site. Hundreds of thousands.
Now you are right in that the law tries to steer clear of these cases because the prosecutor has to prove each and every movie obscene, but it only takes an individual participating in 2 of 8 habitual criminal acts done by a company/organization for them to be guilty of RICO violations.
The ambiguity first lies with distribution not the videos as far as I can tell the Supreme court or even an appeals court has not made any judgment on internet pornography. The product that is moved is not covered under their obscenity law as the real touch is just goofy looking not obscene. But that might not be enough of a line. Then again as you said there is a lot to lose, but a lot to gain.
Then again I'm going for an MBA not a law degree so I've only taken like 3 law classes and they didn't cover shit like this.
(04-02-2010 11:49 PM)speakerz Wrote: [ -> ]Also Zepharin...
Regarding zoning... they could be in trouble there too according to the following state statute.
According to this, a company could be in violation of NC law if, for instance, it was distributing adult videos from the same location from which it sells a sexually oriented device.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...02.10.html
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...02.11.html
Not to mention what local zoning regulations might be regarding where an adult establishment can be located.
That's an interesting theory you have, but isn't it blown to shreds by the fact that RealTouch has marketed it self pretty hard. I mean they were on Howard Stern for God's sake. Isn't that being pretty public? I mean if you don't want to draw any attention from the Feds why in the world would you go on a radio show like that?
Also I'm sure they have plenty of lawyers on call if needed. The law seems very murky on matters of internet porn for most states. I mean how many companies have been charged under RICO laws for porn in the country? If anything they charge the individual (see Max Hardcore, and John Stagliano (sp?)), and you know they probably had a similar setup (shell companies etc..).
According to those statutes, wouldn't AEBN be fine, since it doesn't produce
and sell from their corporate headquarters? They aren't producing porn (that I know of) or even manufacturing RealTouch units from their headquarters, so how could they possibly be guilty. The only thing it seems the state could get them on is like in Florida where Max Hardcore was hit. For having explicit content, however wouldn't the state give you a warning first? I'm sure the lawyers could work something out.
Anyways unless you can give some hard evidence it would seem like a pretty moot point.
(04-02-2010 10:19 PM)speakerz Wrote: [ -> ]There nothing ambiguous about the description in the NC statute. Obscene materials are described in great detail.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...190.1.html
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegis...190.5.html
AND... according to this the preparation and distribution of every single individual movie would be a separate illegal act. Think about how many movies a company has like this on their site. Hundreds of thousands.
Now you are right in that the law tries to steer clear of these cases because the prosecutor has to prove each and every movie obscene, but it only takes an individual participating in 2 of 8 habitual criminal acts done by a company/organization for them to be guilty of RICO violations. So they'd really only have to prove a few. All the execs could get popped because they know exactly what they are doing.
So, I'm just saying that these companies are well aware of this and that's why they try to lay low from government. That's also why they won't advertise in mainstream media like Girls Gone Wild or widespread like Fleshlight. Those businesses are not inherently illegal. Obscene materials are.
And unfortunately there are probably a lot of unwitting employees that could be prosecuted as well. Because when a company hires employees do you really think they tell them that they are going to be committing illegal acts by working there? Of course not and they don't have to. When it comes down to it, ignorance of the law is not a defense.
All it will take is an FBI agent or career-driven federal prosecutor armed with the right information and it wouldn't be pretty.
There's a lot of risk here... for a lot of people. But I guess padding owner and VP pockets makes it all worth it.
[quote='zepherin' pid='1357' dateline='1270159504']
[quote='speakerz' pid='1355' dateline='1270128811']
Big marketing push? Public sharing of how the company's doing? As widespread as Fleshlight? RealTouch in the mainstream?
You'll never see anything like that. And here's why.
Let's imagine you have a company that is blatantly conducting business that is against the laws of the state in which they are located operate, say NC. Perhaps laws against preparing, distributing, and selling obscene materials. Let's also say that by involving affiliates and employees in this illegal activity they are likely exposing them to the same criminal liability. And imagine that same company had created fake companies as fronts as a means to disguise their ongoing illegal activity. A company in this kind of situation would be at risk not only of criminal prosecution for breaking the original laws but also of state and federal RICO law.
The very first part of the statue says
It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to
intentionally disseminate obscenity
So doesn't it allow for ignorance?
Good points, guys.
Here's a few responses...
1) The internet distribution model doesn't matter. The law doesn't specify a specific means of delivery so all means are included. There have been several cases around the country in which that has been upheld. In fact, the law has also had an ammendment protecting ISP's from liability is found to be hosting obscenity on their servers, even if it is against their own User Agreement. Sidenote: the porn companies have found a way to use this to their advantage too by creating their own shell ISPs so they never have to worry about getting booted from an ISP.
2) RealTouch would be covered under the obscenity laws, not as a device, but for the minute purchases. The movies are the obscene material. Also if you read the statute closely, anyone found to be possessing the obscene material could be liable as well for holding contraband.
3) Howard Stern: Howard Stern is not mainstream. Howard Stern is basically raunch on the radio. The only reason any law enforcement use to have for monitoring his program is obscenity. Since he's on satellite now, it doesn't matter. He has pornstars on there all the time and talks about porn all the time. What I mean by mainstream is, you won't see any television commercialslike GGW or display ads on facebook, yahoo, etc. or even in Playboy because of its hardcore, obscene material.
4) Yes, I am sure they have lawyers. But they can't be very bright. Sure, they've set up shell corps, etc. to hide their true business model, and likely their web hosting too. That protects them surface scrutiny. BUT, the very act of going to such lengths to cover-up business activity points to the fact that they know what there are doing is illegal. Why intentionally hide something unless you know you can get nailed for it.
5) That's where the intentional part of the statute comes in AND the RICO. Because in covering something like this up, there has to be some organizational knowledge, at the very least the owners and attorneys. But more than likely it extends to the top company execs, human resources, etc. All I am saying is that these guys could very well be used as an example if the authorities were given the right damaging info. The employees might be covered under the 'unintentional' issue, but not the execs.
6) Regarding the zoning this... yes they do produce and sell from the same location. Whey they encode the existing videos, they are producing a new obscene material, separate and apart from the original video. That is evidenced by the fact that is has a different website, purchase method and price that the original video. By encoding the videos, they have made themselves producers of obscene material. They also likely upload the videos to the server from their business location. The RT is a sexual device. The business location listed on the RT website is in NC and that's where devices are shipped from and returned to. So, they very well could be tagged on the zoning issue, depending on how the government deals with physical location, etc.
7. Another comment regarding the marketing and the product... another reason they are not going to market this hard is because, as others have alluded to elsewhere on this site, the product is a subpar. The lube pump seems to be a recurring problem and they know it. But there's an even bigger problem. Some guy said he bought his in October and it has now completely died from rust, and that's with limited use. I think he bought his shortly after they started selling them. That means that the shelf life on these things is less than six months. So this is the beginning of what could be a very big problem for them. As these things reach 5-6 months they will die, and they will start getting major complaints and bad reviews. That kind of bad PR will tank them likely before they can even release a new version. Not to mention the fact that they've probably got a a zillion of these duds sitting in a warehouse somewhere.
Also...
All of this new minute pricing, free usage, product changes, etc. are very well going to be moot if they get nailed for health and safety issues.
The fact that they accept return devices and send out replacements from the same location is a big problem. They have no way of proving they are not refurbishing devices. One of their drones can come on here and promise they're not, but that's not fact. The devices are not factory sealed nor do they have device numbers that I know of. That means anyone out there could be using someone's else device.
Also, the FDA regulates manual penile pumps to insure health and safety. Do you really think its going to let this thing, with its mechanical belts and remote control functionality slip by without regulation?
I just think this company is very shortsighted. They are porn producers and its obvious they don't have a clue how to develop a product and deliver it to the marketplace. They see it as just another porn site and that's why its going to tank. They are so focused on making money that they have let a lot of major things slip through the cracks.
These are the things that will likely kill this thing. Irresponsibility. They spent two years developing this thing. Somebody shoulda spent the same amount of time researching the business, safety, and legal issues as well.
In the end its going to be the customers that lose out.