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I was gonna write this up on my website, but, well, I've gotten a lot of my info from here for the past while, so I figured I'd share here first. Not to mention, posting links here is all verboten.

Let me preface this with: This is all stuff I'm guessing AEBN doesn't mind being known. The best security method is one that's so secure that everyone can still know about it and not do anything to you. And so, here we are...

I finally got my hands on a real touch, and... Well, AEBN guys, if you're reading this, I owe your engineering team a round of drinks (after I slap them for abusing HID yet /again/. Seriously. Why do hardware engineers do that? We have WinUSB now! Stop making HID the whipping boy of your "I don't want to install a driver" needs!).

It's been a bit of a holy grail around here to subvert AEBN's security and make the real touch work without streaming videos. Well, kids, not gonna happen, at least, not in a pure software way.

You see, whenever you connect the real touch and start a movie, there's a network based challenge/response system that has to be executed to get the controls box to accept commands. It looks a little like this:

1. Send over a packet to control box, requesting a seed packet from the control box.
2. Receive seed packet. The seed packet seems to contain a constantly incrementing 16-bit value, 2 other 16 bit values that seem kinda random, and your 32-bit device serial number.
3. Repeat above steps again. Maybe to pull another random-ish seed value?
4. Send 2 clock values and your serial ID OVER THE NETWORK to AEBN. Seriously. Try starting a movie, pausing it, unplugging your network cable, and hitting lube burst. No go. You MUST be on the network for the device to function.
5. AEBN sends back a 128-bit value
6. Send 128-bit value to box
7. Receive success status
8. Start RealTouchin'.
9. Once done RealTouchin' (closing WMP or when you hit pause), send over an "off" packet that stops the box from processing new commands until auth steps happen again

Whenever you stop/start a movie, or pause then hit the Lube Burst button, and it pauses a little bit, that's because steps 1-6 are happening. It's phone home and reactivating itself. Now, you could have it phone home, activate, then crash out of whatever you used to activate it so it doesn't deauthenticate itself (I haven't actually tested this method yet), but you're still relying on AEBN to start the thing for you in the first place, so it's a bit of a moot point anyways.

This is smart for multiple reasons, and stupid for a few others. It's smart because the authentication algorithm is hosted in two hard to attack places.

- Remotely, the algorithm is an AEBN web service, so you can't sit there and just exhaust the 32-bit sample space created by the 2 clock values locally, assuming that's is even the correct way to do it. 'course, even if you did exhaust the space, most people wouldn't want to ship around a 64GB look up table just to get sucked off by their computer for free anyways, but it's more the principle of the matter for me.

- Locally, the algorithm is in the chip firmware, since you have to send it the value from the network to compare. Not only is the chip epoxied on the board, so much so that it's even hard to tap the chip lines, making popping the top damn near impossible, and even if you did, you'd need a badass microscope and a /lot/ of time. Really, do you care THAT much?

So, sure, steal all the movies you want. Unless the device phones home and activates itself, they ain't gonna do you shit for good. Not only that, AEBN finds out you've been stealing movies, they ban your serial number from the authentication service, and your RealTouch is dead as a doornail.

As for the stupid part... As with all DRM, the thing that worries me is that if AEBN goes under, or their server dies, the Real Touch goes with it unless they release their authentication method. Not only that, this means no truly standalone movies or control, ever. You'll always need network access, because the second anyone gets their hands on local software with the algorithm, a few minutes with a disassembler and it's all over (technically, at least. Legally, that's a minefield would kill every boner on the board forever were I to explain it. Thank you very much DMCA.).

Now, this doesn't stop people from building their own hardware boxes, which is fairly trivial, as RealAgent has proven. But, there's no such thing as a pure software solution here. You want your own control, you have to build your own hardware. However, controlling the RealTouch is arduino simple, and mimicing their control algorithm isn't too hard beyond that.

So yeah, I'm torn between having some respect for AEBN developing a pretty tight little scheme to control their business model, and angry 'cause I'm gonna have to throw together my own control board do to silly shit with the toy.

But don't waste your time on software. Not going to happen. Scott ain't been talkin' out his ass to the press, that's for sure.

- qDot, who's parents are probably so proud of what he uses his CS degree for.

That's good news if true. However much I resent AEBN's current VOD revenue model, they have invested a lot of money in a revolutionary product and they deserve to make a profit. Also, if the RealTouch is a big money maker for them, then it will sure speed up the development of virtual sex and teledildonics.

we never said, that we are use the vids at the realtouch site!
we could perfectly create our own movies, with midi controllers
& the problem for the netwerk connection would be solved to...
it's just a matter of time

i click a realtouch movie and then watch a youtube vid of lady gaga rofl ahhhhhh i love my realtouch i hope they come up with new versions, new belt textures new squeezing methods etc. i will order more of these units. best sex toy on the market

Hacks will be and can be made. I am not infavor of hacks going public. I will cause the product to faill from lack of funds. I do however know how hacks can be done. The others that can hack should not give it out or sell the hack if you want the RealTouch and other tech to advance. Why build it if thier is no profit. We can kill the golden goose so to speak. This foum should not be the death of RealTouch. I am sorry to RealTouch if my posts here in this disscusion has caused concern. Price will come down as users increase. Just like all new electronics. Give it time.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]Hacks will be and can be made. I am not infavor of hacks going public. I will cause the product to faill from lack of funds. I do however know how hacks can be done. The others that can hack should not give it out or sell the hack if you want the RealTouch and other tech to advance. Why build it if thier is no profit. We can kill the golden goose so to speak. This foum should not be the death of RealTouch. I am sorry to RealTouch if my posts here in this disscusion has caused concern. Price will come down as users increase. Just like all new electronics. Give it time.

Psssh. The pay-per minute situation is going to cause this product to fail from lack of funds. If anything, a hack might save them, since it would spark people to buy who previously refused to pay-per minute.

(02-19-2010 02:20 PM)Ray777666 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]Hacks will be and can be made. I am not infavor of hacks going public. I will cause the product to faill from lack of funds. I do however know how hacks can be done. The others that can hack should not give it out or sell the hack if you want the RealTouch and other tech to advance. Why build it if thier is no profit. We can kill the golden goose so to speak. This foum should not be the death of RealTouch. I am sorry to RealTouch if my posts here in this disscusion has caused concern. Price will come down as users increase. Just like all new electronics. Give it time.

Psssh. The pay-per minute situation is going to cause this product to fail from lack of funds. If anything, a hack might save them, since it would spark people to buy who previously refused to pay-per minute.

As much as I hear users and others complain, Realtouch is not having all that much trouble with subscribers as you think. Yes maybe they could sell more as you say, but then the price would be much higher. It’s called differed cost. They are working on making it more affordable to more people and as it grows it will get cheaper. There will always be a part of any market that you cannot sell to. Should a luxury car company sell its cars at the same cost as a small economy model, just to sell more cars? If it did it would go broke. Cost is cost. Initial R&D and bringing a product to market is expensive, just as Plasmas were over $30,000 dollars at one time. Now look at the prices. If right now all you can afford is a Fleashlight then that’s what you buy. Unless Obama will do a stimulus plan for Realtouch. I have no problem paying for what I know is a good product from a company with good support and vision. The prices will adjust to market demands as it grows.

Herehere Reset. Couldn't agree more.

And just for the record, I wasn't completely on board with the pay per minute model at the beginning. But it ended up being more affordable than initially thought, and now they're talking about different types of packages based on subscriber requests. It even looks like for holidays, etc., they'll be occasionally giving out free minutes. All and all I'd say they're hardly being greedy - they just want an effective business model, which in my opinion they have and are working to improve further.

I also agree with Reset that if they sold the hardware along with an "unlimited use" video, the hardware would have to be much more expensive. Competing products (some far less advanced) often go for 3 and 4 times the price.

I for one am quite happy with RealTouch. Even if they didn't change their pricing model, I'm personally pretty happy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd actually be very curious to know how well the product is doing so far.

Again, I don't want to give away confidential information, but in my brief experience of selling the RealTouch it seems that people are buying up minutes soon after purchasing the product. Which is probably an indication of just how much they are enjoying using it.

I would also expect sales to increase greatly once the new pricing models become official. If you watch videos on YouTube about the RealTouch nearly everybody is saying that they won't buy it because it's that sex toy you 'have to pay every time you use it'. However, that negative perception might also take a lot of effort to shift even when the new options are introduced.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]As much as I hear users and others complain, Realtouch is not having all that much trouble with subscribers as you think. Yes maybe they could sell more as you say, but then the price would be much higher. It’s called differed cost.

I have strong doubts about that, but without either of us having seen their books it's impossible to say what they're making.

I'm fully aware of their strategy, and it's not a good one. Many console sellers have tried it in the past and they all died because people simply are not fond of dropping a couple of hundred bucks and then turning around and spending a fortune more just to use it... and the kicker for this product is that it won't even work unless you do pay per use.

The one thing that can be done easily to gauge how popular a product is and what the public opinion of it is, is to search the internet, and considering that this is a largely net-based product targeted at net-users, selling over the net, that search tells us a lot. Basically, a search of this product doesn't turn up even nearly enough buzz to get the sense that this thing has taken off, and certainly not much positive buzz from their potential customers. Will it take off someday? Perhaps, but not with its current model. It's not going to happen.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]They are working on making it more affordable to more people and as it grows it will get cheaper.

Here is the problem... they could go nuts and sell the unit for 2 cents and it still wouldn't be practical because of the pricing model of pay per minute. No matter what they do, anyone who buys it will have spent a fortune over time in order to use it. That's the problem. Making the unit cheaper will do nothing. They will have to at some point include a use-any time pack-in. If they don't they will fade away.

The VR Sex Machine had a great shot to take the market, but the product got bad reviews early and lacked content (and many felt the content they had was no good). But they got one thing right and that was including a pack-in product.

So Real Touch couldn't maintain their current set up and include one coded disc of one experience maybe lasting a few minutes or so, then direct customers to their site to buy more on the disc's internal program the way video game companies do demos or how Porn studios do with DVD's? Of course they could, and they'd get more business by doing it. You have to get people on board with a little piece of content they can own. There are all sorts of ways to make continuity sales, and more effective ways than what RT is doing have been and are being done in all sectors of business.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]There will always be a part of any market that you cannot sell to. Should a luxury car company sell its cars at the same cost as a small economy model, just to sell more cars? If it did it would go broke. Cost is cost.

That's a bad analogy. If you go to a car dealer and plunk down cash and pay in full to buy a car, you're not being forced to go to the dealer and spend more money every time you want to drive it. It's not the same deal.

The flaw in RT's approach is that the unit itself IS affordable for what it does. In fact, it's a brilliantly put together invention. And, it actually would appeal to a HUGE market. The problem is, paying per minute to use it does not appeal to that huge market, it instead turns them off. So they've effectively made a great product and then turned the gun down at their foot and pulled the trigger.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]Initial R&D and bringing a product to market is expensive, just as Plasmas were over $30,000 dollars at one time. Now look at the prices.

As I explained earlier, these analogies don't fit. It doesn't matter how much cheaper the unit becomes, the pay per use issue will keep people away.

Let me let you in on a little something... it's a fact that when console makers create and sell a console it's mostly at a loss. They make that money back through software licensing. This is sort of what RT is doing, but the method to which they're distributing as the sole channel of distribution is the issue that's going to keep them from soaring. Like I stated, it's more than likely that they're selling each unit at a loss when factoring in R&D, manufacturing, and other miscellaneous costs. They COULD in theory make it back through the pay per use videos, but the problem there is that they aren't going to get enough people to do that. So they've put themselves between a rock and a hard place.

(01-10-2010 05:46 PM)Reset Wrote: [ -> ]If right now all you can afford is a Fleashlight then that’s what you buy. Unless Obama will do a stimulus plan for Realtouch. I have no problem paying for what I know is a good product from a company with good support and vision. The prices will adjust to market demands as it grows.

You should visit the Doll Forum (dollforum.com). You'll find thousands of members with plenty of money to spend who spend huge amounts of money on sex dolls and various types of sex toys. What I gauged from that audience is that the RealTouch is a great idea, but even they--people who have more than enough money to spend on these things--won't buy RealTouch because of the pay-per use deal. This is not simply an issue of whether you have the money or not. There is some principle behind people's reluctance to buy it.

The demand is there and it has been for a long time. It's the company that needs to adjust, and they will if they wish to survive long-term.

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(02-23-2010 02:31 AM)realman Wrote: [ -> ]If you watch videos on YouTube about the RealTouch nearly everybody is saying that they won't buy it because it's that sex toy you 'have to pay every time you use it'. However, that negative perception might also take a lot of effort to shift even when the new options are introduced.

Unfortunately for RT, it's not a perception. It's reality. You are technically paying each time you use it.

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(02-21-2010 08:32 AM)WolfpupNX Wrote: [ -> ]I for one am quite happy with RealTouch. Even if they didn't change their pricing model, I'm personally pretty happy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd actually be very curious to know how well the product is doing so far.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the other points. But in terms of how well this product is doing... well... consider this:

*This is a forum dedicated to Real Touch. It comes up high in the search engines, but it doesn't have a whole lot of activity...

*More importantly, the forum on the Real Touch site doesn't have much activity (just 76 registered users). Considering that this is a product sold over the net to net savvy users who would more than likely check-in to a forum about the product they bought... I'd take the low activity as a good indicator of how well it's doing... but I'd bet the farm that if they start doing something to allow content ownership we'd suddenly see a sharp rise in participation.

For the record, I have the financial means to buy a Real Touch and all of its content countless times over (plus a room full of Real Dolls if I wanted). I've worked hard in my life and saved harder in order to reach that position. But, without being able to own any content, it's a no-go. No matter how much money you make in this life, wise savers understand that they didn't get to that financial position by throwing their money into bottomless pits...